How to Support Your Body's Natural Detox Pathways: What Actually Works

The full transcript of this episode is below. Lightly edited for readability.

Kelly: Hey, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. I’ve really wanted to do a couple of sessions on cleansing and the body’s natural ability to cleanse — how to optimise it and how to reduce toxic load. I think it’s particularly important right now. I don’t know, it just feels heavy with everything that’s happening in the world. And I really love your approach, having gone through two of your seasonal cleanses. I’m thrilled to have you on. Thank you.

Anthia: Thank you so much for having me. It’s a delight. Thank you.

Kelly: Pleasure. So before we get started, I’d love to just give people a sense into your life. Could you run us through what your morning looked like and how do you nourish yourself at the start of the day?

Anthia: Yeah, sure. Because I am on a 21-day seasonal cleanse reset at the moment, this morning looked like a pot of my Hygeia One Tea — it’s a lovely bowel liver cleanser — a cup of chicken bone stock broth. And I also had some quinoa gluten-free bread I made yesterday — quinoa and chia seeds, it actually worked out, I was very impressed. I had it with some chicken liver pâté, avocado, and some sautéed spinach. That was it. Pretty nutrient-dense start. I’ve got a big day consulting, so that was it today.

Kelly: That’s a beautiful way to load your body with nutrients. So beautiful. Okay, let’s jump in. You’ve been in naturopathic practice for 31 years, which is amazing — a wealth of knowledge. How has your understanding of detoxification evolved over that time?

Anthia: It is such an interesting question because only last week my assistant Heidi said to me, “You haven’t changed your stance on detoxification and cleanses.” And I said, “Absolutely right, I haven’t.” I’ve been thinking about seasonal cleansing and detoxification as something that is a pairing back and then a re-nourishment. I’ve been thinking about that since I read a book when I was twelve — How to Get Well by Paavo Airola — which talked about cleansing, saunas, dry brushing. Something just clicked. I haven’t changed my views on detoxification or cleansing.

Kelly: Amazing. So with the 21-Day Seasonal Cleanse program, could you explain your approach — but also why seasonal, and what’s the importance of that?

Anthia: For me, a cleanse and a detox doesn’t mean a highly restrictive fast or water cleansing or anything like that. It’s a simple pairing back of any processed foods, additives, and addictive substances — whether that’s caffeine, sugar, alcohol — that can get in the way because we end up using them as crutches. And then we replenish with nourishing food and nourishing self-care practices.

It made sense to do that with a changing season. I created these four rituals or touch points over the year because there’s different food on offer and different conditions with the change of season. When we’re thinking autumn or winter, it’s all about preparing for immunity, supporting gut immunity. There’s a lot more citrus fruit, a lot more greens available. And I also think — how nice to have a reminder in this busy modern landscape that there are seasons, that food does change, that we’re not having smoothies 365 days a year.

Kelly: Yeah, I think if you live in countries where there are really marked seasons, it can be more obvious with the food. But in Australia, we tend to have the same food throughout the year. How does that affect your body?

Anthia: I don’t think you’re eating food in its prime, in its optimal nutrition. If you bought organic produce grown locally and seasonally, it would be much more obvious. Because food is made available all the time — we can get cherries out of season from the US — you miss that nuance. But once you plug into seasonal, local, or organic produce, you’ll notice a difference in pricing, and you’ll notice the taste being different. A seasonal strawberry in summer tastes very different to a strawberry in the middle of winter. And there are more nutrients available — the science shows us that. We miss a lot of that nuance because we’re so stressed out and overwhelmed with just life.

Kelly: Totally. In wellness, people tend to go to the shiny and the super advanced, and all of that is amazing. But unless you’re coming back and really looking at the foundations, all of that stuff isn’t really going to work too much.

Anthia: No, it isn’t. These are the foundations. When we say a 21-day reset, it’s such a short time. But it’s long enough to instil self-care habits we can carry on through the entire season. We may bring coffee back, we may have one or two drinks during the week. But it’s an opportunity to step back and reset — and to instil those habits rather than making big grand New Year’s resolutions. It’s an opportunity to revisit: how is it that I want to feel, and how do I want to be in my life?

Kelly: I feel like the word “detox” is really thrown around, and your approach is very gentle. But I often see this quite harsh, urgent version — “detox this, take this.” Where do you think there are the greatest misconceptions around detoxing?

Anthia: It’s a good question to ask because we see so many patients who have been taking oregano oil relentlessly for years. And then we do a gut microbiome stool test and they have undetectable levels of beneficial bacteria. Detox is synonymous with “clean” — and clean is where we should be. But it isn’t where we should be. We’re symbiotic beings living in an ecosystem that is dynamic. We’re full of gut microbiome — more microbiome than there are human cells. It isn’t to clean everything out that is “dirty” or to purify. It’s as if purification and clean is better than symbiosis or balance. That sterilisation way of thinking is really interesting. We see it everywhere in wellness.

Kelly: That framing is really interesting — sterilisation — and the impact that has on people. Could you talk about the other approach? The body functions and detoxifies naturally — what are those pathways if everything’s working optimally?

Anthia: Often people think that when we start a detox, we’re switching on a switch. But your body is always detoxifying through the organs of elimination — the bowels, the kidneys, the urinary system, the liver, the lymphatic system, the lungs through breath, and the skin.

When we’re supporting — and that word “support” is the right one — the organs of detoxification, we look at what toxins we’re exposed to and minimise those. And then if those organs feel sluggish, we’d see presenting symptoms. For the liver, it could be feeling nauseous, not being able to digest fats, feeling sluggish and tired. We might also do a blood test to see what the liver enzymes are doing. Support means either taking off the load or using herbs, medicines, or particular foods that tone the function of those organs.

Kelly: For somebody who might have got carried away on the detox bandwagon — what are the potential risks of over-detoxing?

Anthia: Stripping the gut biome of beneficial bacteria is a big one. Sometimes as part of detox, people are alkalising everything — and they forget that our stomach needs to be acidic. That stomach acid is so important for breaking down protein and sterilising any ingested pathogenic bacteria that come from foods or the environment. I think sometimes people go on restrictive diets and they miss out on macronutrients as well as micronutrients — the vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants that are yielded from protein, carbs, and fats. Those are just some of the reasons.

Kelly: What would be really useful now is a deep dive into each of those detoxification pathways. Maybe we start with the liver, because it’s really doing a lot of heavy lifting. Could you explain the two-phase liver detoxification process?

Anthia: Most people don’t know the liver has two phases of detoxification. Think of phase one as the liver’s ability to break down toxins into more intermediate compounds — it helps transform them into something that phase two can then bind to. In phase two, there are compounds that help bind to those intermediate toxins to neutralise them so they can be safely eliminated via the bowels, via urine, via bile. Phase one transforms, phase two neutralises and safely eliminates. That’s the best way to describe it.

Kelly: And what are the signs someone might have a sluggish liver?

Anthia: It could be anything from feeling nauseous, not being able to digest fats, not being able to lose weight, not breaking down cholesterol well. It could be hormonal imbalance. The liver has such an important role in metabolism, detoxification, and the synthesis and storage of nutrients. Usually people with sluggish livers are burning the candle at both ends — taking a lot of prescription medication, over-the-counter medication, drugs, alcohol, caffeine, sugar, processed foods. We don’t suggest anyone stop their prescriptive medication, but just to be mindful of liver health and support during those periods.

Kelly: My dad was definitely like that. With the liver — having done the cleanse, you have some really beautiful nourishing protocols. Could you talk us through those?

Anthia: We begin with food as medicine, because it’s the easiest place to start. A lot of people aren’t eating enough of the kinds of fruits and vegetables that support the different phases within your liver. The main group is the brassica family — also known as cruciferous vegetables — which includes broccoli, broccolini, kale, cauliflower, cabbage, turnips, rocket. They support both phase one and phase two liver detoxification. Anything that is bright — purple, red, orange — anything rich in antioxidants, anything naturally rich in B vitamins. Make sure you’re hydrating well and having good, regular bowel motions.

As herbalists and naturopaths, we can prescribe herbs very specifically. But we say: get advice from a qualified practitioner to make sure you don’t have any drug interactions. I say this every single day — you can’t take that with this. Whether it’s your GP or an experienced naturopath, seek expert advice before taking prescriptive herbs or supplements.

Kelly: Do you give any guidance on how many serves of brassica vegetables per day?

Anthia: Yes. For someone wanting to support liver detoxification, one to two cups of cooked brassica family per day. For some people, that’s already a lot — many people aren’t eating enough vegetables or enough variety. We aim for diversity for the gut biome but also for nutritional diversity. Those plant fibres feed beneficial bacteria, so diversity in plants really is important.

Kelly: And so let’s go into the gut. The gut obviously plays a central role in detoxification. What are some of the signs it’s not working optimally, and what’s happening in the body when it isn’t?

Anthia: When I think of the most common presenting symptoms I see patients for, it is bloating, gas, discomfort, and some type of irregular bowels — whether it’s constipation or loose stools. Some people know about their food intolerances or sensitivities. Some people are very attuned to their symptoms — they’ll connect fatigue or brain fog to what they ate, or notice their skin breaks out when they eat a certain thing. And it really is interesting to me how many people experience a lot of gut symptoms.

Kelly: Yeah, it does feel extremely common. So what have you found supports the gut?

Anthia: One of the first things isn’t so obvious, because the first thing we think of is food. But for me, one of the first things is the awareness that the counterbalance to the fight-flight stress response is called rest and digest. When you’re eating on the run or in a stressed-out state, you’re not going to optimise your digestive function. You won’t be able to eliminate regularly or absorb nutrients optimally — because in a fight-flight response, all blood flow shunts away from the digestive system. So how do we optimise that? Slow everything down. Chew, chew, chew food until liquid, and use those sensory touch points to prepare your digestive system for food consumption.

Kelly: And I imagine that’s pretty rare for most people today. If your life is hectic, what are some little practices to help your body get into that calm state?

Anthia: I created something called the 15-15-15 minute rule, especially for my patients at lunchtime who work intensive long days. Fifteen minutes of preparation — winding down, getting your food organised, finding a lovely place to sit. Then fifteen minutes to sit, chew food until liquid, do nothing else but enjoy that meal. And then fifteen minutes to pack it away and perhaps go for a little walk to support that digestive process. If you’ve got more time, extend it. Always suggest going for a walk after you’ve eaten rather than sitting back in that sedentary position in front of a screen.

Kelly: That also helps with blood sugar regulation.

Anthia: Exactly.

Kelly: Maybe we could talk about the kidneys. I feel like they’re not talked about as much. Could you explain their role and what commonly compromises them?

Anthia: When I think of the kidneys, the first thing I think about is filtering the blood and removing waste via urine. It makes sense that we hydrate the kidneys — make sure we’re drinking enough fluids and the right kind of fluids, not predominantly dehydrating ones like alcohol and caffeinated drinks. Remember, those phase one and phase two liver detoxification compounds need to be eliminated safely via the kidneys and urine. So we think: are people dehydrated? Are they eating a lot of processed foods, sodium, alcohol? Are certain medications affecting kidney function?

I think of the kidneys as: hydration, hydration, hydration. A whole food diet. If you’re eating a lot of processed food, think of it as dehydrated food that needs to be rehydrated. And remember, it’s an organ equally important for detoxification because it filters out waste.

Kelly: And is water itself enough, or do you need electrolytes or sea salt?

Anthia: It depends on what kind of water you’re drinking — tap water versus spring water — and also what kind of exercise you’re doing, whether you live in a hot climate, whether you get sick frequently. So there are all factors — not just what you’re consuming orally, but the environment you’re in that could lead to dehydration. And therefore, does your water need something extra, like electrolytes, coconut water, or bone stock broth?

Kelly: Yeah. I always told my dad that tea and milk does not count as water. Okay, let’s talk about the lymphatic system. It seems like in the past two years, information about it is everywhere — before that, nothing. Could you talk about its role in detoxification and how to best support it?

Anthia: This stuff cycles. I’ve been a practitioner for nearly 31 years and we’ve seen the trends come back around. Regardless — yes, the lymphatic system and lymphatic flow. The lymph system moves waste and toxins out of the body, but it doesn’t have a pump. So it relies on circulation, movement, and breath. There are all these added tools — vibration machines, dry brushing to the lymphatic glands, specific movements. Hot and cold showers, saunas.

When I think about how to tell if someone needs to support their lymphatic system, it’s if they’re really puffy or fluid-heavy and they feel this heaviness in their body. People who’ve been sitting all day will say, “My legs feel so heavy and I don’t have any ankles anymore.” They just need to move their bodies. It’s that simple. Simple movement. My kids have a trampoline — I use it more than they do.

Kelly: And you touched on breath. The lungs themselves are an important detox pathway. What are some simple changes in how we breathe to best support detoxification?

Anthia: People don’t realise that yes, your breath also detoxifies metabolic waste. First I check if people can breathe well — whether they’re shallow breathers, nose breathers, or mouth breathers. If they can’t breathe through their nose, we’re looking at sinusitis, allergies, nasal congestion. We want to address those first.

Also, people who are stressed often hold their breath. So we teach them how to breathe well — breathe through the nasal passages, mouth closed, breathing in for a few counts, and then breathing out for a few counts.

And it’s also what you’re breathing in. What’s in your environment — molds, synthetic chemicals, fragrances versus fresh air. We had a patient who was a carpenter and what he was breathing in were really toxic chemicals we were then able to test. If you’ve got a garden or a park nearby, get around trees. They breathe out the oxygen that we breathe in. There’s our symbiotic partner.

Kelly: Perfect. Maybe just to finish up — one thing people tend not to take into account when they’re thinking about detoxification is the mental and emotional load, which in itself can be quite toxic. Did you want to speak to that?

Anthia: Yes. I hear this language a lot with patients who really don’t like themselves — who use quite negative, critical language about their symptoms and how they look and feel. A take-home message would be: have reverence for your symptoms and feelings, and act with kindness towards yourself, as if it were a friend knocking on the door who needed tending to. Your symptoms and feelings sometimes just need attention from you. Sometimes they’re quietly knocking, sometimes they’re screaming loudly with big symptoms or disease states. Having reverence towards them is far more regulating to your nervous system than being in a fight-flight response towards your own body.

Kelly: Absolutely. If you go about addressing an issue and trying to improve your health but you do it with stress, you’re just worsening the situation. Whereas if you take that reverent, slow, gentle approach, you’re working in harmony with your body.

Anthia: Exactly. And you stay in a much more curious space, which opens up so many more doors. You have greater perspective, more possibilities — rather than being in that very narrow fight-flight response.

Kelly: Yes. And that’s very linked to my final question. I like to end these interviews by bringing it all down to one thing. We’ve covered a lot — where would you recommend people start?

Anthia: The first thing that pops into my head is: chew, chew, chew, chew your food until liquid. And eat in a relaxed state, with reverence for what you’re eating. Because then you can really think about it and feel what’s happening. Am I eating the right food? Am I eating nutrient-dense food? What am I feeding myself? But if you slow it down, that’ll give you a lot of insight. Just chewing.

Kelly: And I bet a lot of people listening — and I’m probably one of them — don’t chew their food to liquid. So that’s definitely something I can take on this week. Thank you so much. Where can people find you and what are the different ways they can work with you?

Anthia: I also have a podcast called How We Heal, available on all platforms. My website is apothecabyanthia.com — you can book a one-on-one consult, subscribe to my Substack, or listen to the podcast. That’s apothecabyanthia.com — And you’ll find me either in my store and clinic in Surrey Hills or online.

Kelly: Beautiful. And next week, Anthia is coming back to talk about how we can reduce all the things in our environment that are adding to that toxic load. So listen next week, because Anthia will be back. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Anthia: Thank you. Pleasure.