How to Beat Chronic Stress: Simple Habits That Actually Calm Your Nervous System

The full transcript of this episode is below. Lightly edited for readability.

Kelly: Hey, Camilla, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really, really appreciate it. I remember the first time that you and I ever chatted — I felt like, you know, you get off the phone with someone and you’re like, I could talk to that person forever. That was my experience. So I’m looking forward to this.

Camilla: Thank you. So good. I felt the same. I think over the years we’ve had so many conversations, but it’s really good to bring it together into this forum. And a book. So yeah, exciting.

Kelly: Yeah, thank you. I’d like to start by taking a look inside your life. I love to hear how people start their days. So how do you start your day to set yourself up for success? What are some of your habits?

Camilla: Okay, well today — so I do a lot of alternate things, I alternate days — but every morning, since January 1st, I’ve done a ten minute meditation. I just jump onto Insight Timer, I’ve bookmarked a few people I like, and I just do ten minutes. It really has changed so much. I just feel so much more at peace and calm and hopeful once I’ve done it. And I’m doing a lot of ones with affirmations and positive energy. But I used to do it and it’s one of those things that you do, you feel good, and then it drops off and then you’re like, why did I stop doing that? Because that felt really good. So that’s back on — that’s one of my everyday non-negotiables. And I bookend my day — the other one is reading a book. Just ten minutes minimum at night. So those are my bookend habits. This morning I’ve had an infrared sauna, then I did a cold shower after that, then I did a bit of red light therapy. I don’t do this every day — every other day I alternate. Then I got a bit of sunlight, natural light in the morning, had my tea on my balcony, and then I went to the gym and did some weights. I start work really early, so I started work early, then had the sauna, then did a bit more work, then went to the gym. I’m very lucky I’ve got that flexibility to kind of sprinkle my habits during the day.

Kelly: Yeah. And it probably helps — I find this when I just sit down and try to power through the day and work, I’m actually less productive and I get to the end of the day exhausted and my back hurts. Whereas if I do bits of intense work, get up, do something — sauna or whatever it is, jump on the trampoline in my case, because I’m crazy — I find I get to the end of the day more energised. Do you find that?

Camilla: 100%. And I’ve got a trampoline too, and that will be part of my afternoon routine. Ten, fifteen minutes, put some music on, and that just gives me some more energy to do the rest of the afternoon. I really love doing that. Once I’ve done my meditation and had a cup of tea, I’m ready to work for an hour, and then I’ll take breaks and do things. But it really does depend on our chronotype — where we’re at from the moment we wake up. Some people are more of a wolf or night owl — they’re not going to feel productive as soon as they wake up. So it really depends.

Kelly: Talk to me a little bit about chronotype for people who don’t know.

Camilla: Yeah, so we all have a biological clock — which feeds into the whole stress piece we’re going to talk about. We all have this 24-hour internal clock, which we know as our circadian rhythm. And all of us have different chronotypes. Those chronotypes dictate a lot of things — how we work, our personality, when best to go to sleep. It’s so individualised. And I think that’s where we go so wrong with health — everything becomes generic, “well this works for me, it’ll work for you,” and we don’t look at that bio-individuality. You can do a free online test based on Dr. Michael Breus’s framework — he came up with four chronotypes. Most of us have heard of the night owl and the lark, but there’s more depth to it: the bear, the lion, the wolf, and the dolphin. And we all fluctuate in and out of those. Like when we’re teenagers, we all become wolves — we’re up late. Babies tend to be more like lions — early to bed, early to rise. As we get older, we change. For women, I’ve become a dolphin since perimenopause.

Kelly: So what’s a dolphin?

Camilla: The dolphin is much more sensitive, a light sleeper, very sensitive to everything. And I wasn’t like that before — I was more of a lion. So it’s interesting. We do have dominant ones, but they can shift.

Kelly: It’s so true about the change. I used to be able to work late into the night and then go to sleep and sleep fine. But I just don’t do that anymore because it totally unravels me. And last night I was working a bit late and tried to go straight to sleep — which is a big no-no for me. Sure enough, didn’t sleep well. The Oura ring stats are terrible. You just have to respect where you’re at. I’ll put the link in the show notes so people can do that chronotype test. Something really simple.

Camilla: Yeah, it’s really simple and really worth doing — great for people you work with, or relationships and family, so you understand each other. When we look at teenagers, they’re going through that whole wolf period and we expect them to get up and go to school with their brains switched on at 9am and they’re just not. Some workplaces do amazing things where everyone knows each other’s chronotype — they’ll go, okay, book a meeting with Matt at this time, because that’s when he’s at his peak for deep work.

Kelly: So cool. What a way to set up a workplace around people’s bio-individuality. Amazing. And what else do you add into your nighttime routine?

Camilla: For nighttime, it’s really about dimming the lights. Our circadian clock starts from the moment we wake up. Natural light in the morning tells the body to start producing cortisol, to get going. Then at night, when it gets darker, that’s the signal to start producing more melatonin. A lot of us still have very bright lights in the evenings — we really want to dim the lights down so it feels more like sunset. Or wear blue-light glasses, some people are into those. I have herbal tea. I’m not watching anything on TV that’s too violent or overstimulating — I’ve become so much more sensitive to that as I get older. And I take magnesium glycinate at night to help with sleep and the nervous system. And then going to bed at the same time every night. The body loves consistency with sleep. I’ve just gone through jet lag from London, which was awful. My body just said no — I’m used to consistency and this messed up my schedule completely.

Kelly: Yeah. I feel like we forget that as adults. If you’re a parent, you see that children thrive with routines, but then we think, no, but we don’t need them. But the body loves that consistency.

Camilla: It does. And some of the latest sleep research keeps coming back to that — Dr. Matthew Walker is always interesting to follow on sleep. The consistency just keeps coming back. You’ve got about a half-hour window at weekends before going to bed later or waking up later starts to disrupt that rhythm.

Kelly: It’s not a lot, is it. So if you’re trying to wake up at 5am during the week and you want to sleep in on the weekend — it kind of stuffs it up.

Camilla: Yeah. And most people find the body automatically wakes up anyway, once you’re in that rhythm. It’s really hard to go back to sleep. The body is so guided by hormones and rhythm. From the moment we wake up to through the night, there’s all this work happening internally. It’s pretty amazing.

Kelly: You’re obviously one of the leading voices in biohacking in Australia. I’m curious — of all the things you’ve tried, is there anything recent you’ve been really surprised by? Whether it’s a device or a habit, something that’s had more positive impact than you expected?

Camilla: Look, I get asked this quite a lot. And for me, it always comes back to foundational simple practices. A cold shower and a bit of humming or gargling in the shower, just to activate the vagus nerve. I know a lot of people sing in the shower — there’s a reason for that. It does actually activate your parasympathetic nervous system. But I love a cold shower. It just sets me up for the day. It’s a resilience piece. It increases dopamine. You feel like you can do anything once you’ve done that. It’s harder in winter, but I’m determined to keep going. Hot first, minimum 30 seconds cold.

Kelly: Same. Yeah, hot-cold is much more manageable.

Camilla: So I think something as simple as a cold shower, and just taking ten minutes in the morning to breathe and create some space — for me, that’s an absolute non-negotiable now.

Kelly: I love your approach because I think so many people in biohacking — I love the space, but it can become so intense. I love that you just bring it back to the simple. What can you fit into your day?

Camilla: Yeah, look, I wrote my book to make biohacking accessible and affordable for everyone because I felt excluded from it. I was like, I don’t have thousands of dollars to spend on regular hyperbaric chambers and cryotherapy — which are amazing, I’ve tried them and they’re incredible. But I don’t have that endless budget. So it’s like, how can I replicate some of this through nature, which ultimately is our biggest and best biohack. Red light therapy is mimicking nature. I do love red light therapy and saunas, but I want everyone to be able to go, well, I can use a sauna at my gym, or I can do this — it doesn’t have to be unattainable.

Kelly: Absolutely. And I find it funny — there’s that whole Longevity Olympics that Bryan Johnson has started. One of the people at the very top of it is a woman in her fifties whose whole approach is just eat more vegetables, consistently exercise. She was at some stage actually outperforming him, who’s spending millions and millions of dollars. I love it.

Camilla: That’s brilliant. I find him fascinating, and Kayla Barnes too — they’re both absolute experiments in what’s possible in the longevity space. But I just love to hear that someone’s going, hang on, I’m just doing some basic pieces. I was just in London for my great-aunt’s 100th birthday. And people keep saying, what’s her secret? What does she eat? What exercise does she do? And it’s like — her secret is a sense of meaning, purpose, and community. She’s the ambassador at her care home. She loves all the people and the staff and that’s what keeps her going. My dad’s 80 — not massively into healthy diet, definitely not exercise, but he still works full time, deep-sea dives every year, travels. He’s just got a young mindset. The mindset piece is so important.

Kelly: Yeah. I saw my dad decline rapidly when that changed. So yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s jump into today’s topic — we’re going to look at stress, and that whole feeling of being wired, unable to shut off your brain, overwhelmed. Maybe we can start by sharing personally — what’s been your experience of that?

Camilla: Look, I think stress is probably the thing I struggle with the most — managing my stress levels. And I know what to do, I’ve got all the tools, I understand the mechanics behind it, but it doesn’t make it any easier. It’s really easy to get addicted to stress and get caught in that loop of rushing, everything’s an emergency 24 hours a day. I think now that I’m not parenting as much — my kids are older and have left home — that has made a huge difference. But I’ve been burnt out. I’ve been in hospital with sepsis because I was so work, work, work, go, go, go. I didn’t realise I was unwell. And I think a lot of people are operating like that. So disconnected from their bodies. Stress builds up and up. Chronic stress is really not good, and most of us are living in a state of it.

Kelly: And I think the point you just made is so important. I remember sitting on the couch with my best friend — I was going through a divorce and speaking about it from the head up, very detached. And my friend said, Kel, you’re not feeling your body at all. It was a survival mechanism. And I’d lived like that for twenty, thirty years. So for someone who’s like that — pushing it down — what are some of the signals they can look out for?

Camilla: Yeah, I just had this conversation with a girlfriend last week. Three kids, on two or three boards, massive job, just diagnosed with underactive thyroid. She keeps saying, I’m fine, I’m fine. She’s superhuman. But her body is telling her something different. And that’s the pattern — waking up after what you think is a good sleep but still feeling exhausted. Relying on caffeine. That afternoon slump where you’re dragging yourself through mud. When everything feels negative and difficult — that’s when your body is profoundly stressed. And you feel it physically. The tight chest. The stomach. Some people are not going to the toilet properly. The amount of senior leaders I work with who go once or twice a week — because they’re so stressed they literally can’t let go. It really shocked me.

Kelly: It makes sense though. If I think back seven years, I probably would have had a similar experience. Because your body is literally gripping.

Camilla: Yes. That’s why we say rest and digest with the parasympathetic nervous system — because it allows the body to do what it’s supposed to do. And it’s the same with menstrual cycles in some women when they’re super stressed. The body just can’t let go. When we get stuck in survival, the body’s constantly running on adrenaline and cortisol. Eventually it burns the adrenals out. That’s when we see things like Addison’s disease — where the adrenals actually stop producing cortisol. Life-threatening. The body keeps the score. And we’re seeing such an increase in issues — 80% of autoimmune cases are in women.

Kelly: Is that right? Wow. 80% of autoimmune cases are in women. Hmm.

Camilla: Yeah. Because we are the caregivers, always doing everything for everyone else. And we’ve got so many different hormonal functions going on in the body. When we think of hormones, we think of women’s hormones — but it’s so much more than that.

Kelly: You wrote that article recently where you explained the key stress hormones like a boardroom — like a CEO. Can you take us through those key hormones in plain language?

Camilla: Yes — I’ve done a whole series on the C-suite. I’ve done the mood C-suite, the sleep C-suite, and the stress one. It’s an interesting way to view how we’re being controlled and operated — what’s going on at a board level in our body. So you’ve got cortisol as the CEO. It’s what gets us up in the morning. Okay, I’m in charge, let’s do this. Then adrenaline steps in — I’d call that the COO. It’s there for business, but it shouldn’t be running the show all day. It’s meant to jump in when you really need it. But unfortunately a lot of us are running on way too much adrenaline all day. Adrenaline is for when the sabre-tooth tiger jumps in — but now it’s just relentless. And then we’ve got DHEA, which is the regulating, calming hormone — I called that the CFO. The person coming in and saying, okay, what does this look like? Let’s keep this in order. DHEA is also responsible for our sex hormones — testosterone and estrogen. As we get older, DHEA drops, which means a drop in those hormones too. Everything is interlinked.

Kelly: Yeah, and you talk about cortisol and people tend to think it’s negative — but it’s crucial. It’s about balance. If someone is in balance, what does that look like?

Camilla: It’s unusual for people to be in balance, sadly. But cortisol — we want to see a rise in the morning, and then gradually taper off during the day. As we’re going to bed, cortisol reduces down. That’s if someone’s regulated. Adrenaline should really only spike when needed — it’s the COO doing operating stuff in the background, not front of mind. But that’s not happening for most people, because adrenal fatigue — which is essentially burnout — happens when the adrenals have been pushed to the limit. When we’re dysregulated, we see cortisol keep spiking. And it spikes at night too. There’s a natural cortisol rise around 3am — the body starting to get ready to wake up in the next few hours. But most of us are running so high on cortisol already that when that 3am spike hits, it’s like two magnets connecting — ping, you’re awake, brain alert, can’t get back to sleep.

Kelly: And is that part of the 3am wake-up that’s so common?

Camilla: Yes — it’s cortisol and adrenaline. The nervous system is dysregulated. Most people should be able to breathe through that 3am surge and drift back to sleep. But for people who are in high alert and survival mode, the mind starts racing. There can also be other hormones at play — particularly for women, low progesterone or low estrogen. And if you’ve had alcohol before bed, that reduces your GABA. GABA is the hormone that keeps us calm — so when it’s reduced, people experience more anxiety and a fragmented night. Really, cortisol levels should be lower at night if your nervous system is regulated.

Kelly: And with all of this — there’s what you can feel in your body, and the symptoms. But what about actual testing? Do you recommend any specific tests?

Camilla: The DUTCH test is great for cortisol — it shows your cortisol spikes throughout the day. There’s now a version for men and women. That’s a good one. And the DNA methylation test is really worth doing. It doesn’t look at cortisol per se, but it looks at dopamine, sleep, your COMT genes — how you deal with stress, how your body responds — and that feeds into cortisol production. It also looks at caffeine metabolism, which is really interesting. Women tend to produce more cortisol than men, generally. And cortisol stores fat — around the belly especially. The body thinks you’re under threat all the time and goes into protection mode.

Kelly: And that makes it incredibly hard to lose weight. If anyone’s listening and doing all the right things — eating well, exercising — but just can’t shift it, that chronic stress and cortisol is often what’s making it almost impossible.

Camilla: Absolutely. I’ve gone to yoga retreats or done breathwork and the next day you wake up feeling lighter, less bloated. Your body feels better. When I’ve had a regular breathwork practice, it actually flushes out cortisol. It activates the vagus nerve. There’s so many amazing free things we can do for vagal activation that really help to reduce cortisol.

Kelly: So before we go into those — maybe we can explain the vagus nerve for people who don’t know?

Camilla: Yeah. My framing — I call it the queen of the nervous system. It’s like our controller of all things nerve-related. It runs all the way across your chest, up to your neck, down to your gut. It sits in the parasympathetic nervous system. So we’ve got the two systems: the sympathetic — survival, fight or flight — and the parasympathetic. The vagus nerve is activated when we’re in parasympathetic mode. A lot of us are stuck in fight or flight, so our vagus nerve isn’t doing what it should do. It’s not regulating the nervous system properly. So vagal toning — the things we can do to activate it — includes cold showers, walking, grounding our feet, massage, gargling, singing, humming. And technology like the Pulsetto device, which uses vibration. Kids often hum to self-soothe — they’re instinctively regulating their nervous systems. One of my favourites is the humming bee — you put your fingers in your ears and hum like a bee, and just the vibration is extraordinary.

Kelly: Nice! And gardening too, you mentioned?

Camilla: Yes — being in nature helps activate the vagus nerve. Gardening, grounding. It’s about finding those pockets during the day where you calm the nervous system.

Kelly: And I try to be really aware of how my body is feeling — if I notice I’m getting tense, going out into the garden, feet on the ground, shaking. Shaking is really good for moving energy off. And breath work. Anything that down-regulates — catching it early, before you get swept up into some stress spiral.

Camilla: Totally. And for people who really struggle — acupuncture can be great. Ear acupuncture in particular helps to activate the vagus nerve. Chiropractors too, if the vagus nerve is trapped they can release that. The mechanics of the body and what we’re holding onto and where we’re stuck — that’s why the somatic piece is so important. Using the body to release.

Kelly: And what about specific practices to balance cortisol and adrenaline? And things that aggravate them that we should be avoiding?

Camilla: Look, ice baths and cold plunges can actually give a real spike in cortisol — so if you’re already running high, jumping into an ice bath can be counterproductive, particularly for women. Coffee does spike cortisol — some people can manage it, for others it’s a problem. Alcohol — initially people feel calm, but it also spikes cortisol. And then the adrenaline piece — things like losing your temper in the car, or that reactive parenting moment, zero to sixty — that sends the body into a massive adrenaline spike. Breath work helps with all of it. Just finding those small pockets of calm. Five minutes. Be a plant — vitamin D, drink water, breathe fresh air, photosynthesize. Even just hand on your chest, hand on your belly, telling yourself: I’m okay, I’m safe.

Kelly: Love that. Now you mentioned coffee — and I know I love it, a lot of people do. Are there ways to have coffee so it doesn’t impact you as much? Timing, for instance?

Camilla: It’s really individualised. The DNA methylation test actually looks at caffeine metabolism — whether you’re a fast or slow metaboliser, and when the best time to drink coffee is based on your genetics. Then factor in your epigenetics — what’s your lifestyle like? Are you already a million miles an hour and then you hit coffee on top of that? I don’t drink coffee myself, but I’m not against it at all — there are lots of health benefits to good quality coffee. Quality matters enormously. Having it as a ritual — slowing down, sitting with it — is a different experience than throwing it down on the run. One thing I’d really recommend: always hydrate before you caffeinate. Water before coffee, water after. Coffee is dehydrating and it depletes magnesium, so if you’re drinking a lot of coffee, you want to supplement with magnesium.

Kelly: Yeah, I found that shifting from having coffee on an empty stomach to having it after food was a complete game changer for me.

Camilla: Yes — particularly for women, it can make a huge difference. Just tuning in and noticing how you feel when you have it. Even half a banana or some chia pudding to line the gut before you hit it with coffee.

Kelly: What about DHEA — how do we support that?

Camilla: There are supplements for it, though it’s not straightforward to get — a bit like the peptide space, it’s somewhat grey. Some doctors can prescribe it. It helps stabilise estrogen and testosterone — particularly important for women, because we get a real drop in testosterone too, though it’s not talked about as much. In terms of food: healthy fats support DHEA production because it’s a steroid hormone and the body needs fat to make it. So avocado, extra virgin olive oil, wild salmon, nuts and seeds. Good protein — eggs, grass-fed meat, chicken. Starting the day with really good quality eggs — pasture raised — with avocado and olive oil on sourdough or gluten-free bread, broccoli sprouts, wild salmon. That’s a really nourishing start and it supports DHEA production. It also keeps blood sugar stable, rather than the berries-and-granola spike. Most of us are also choline deficient — we get choline from eggs — and choline feeds the brain.

Kelly: And you say you work with a lot of high performers — do you notice anything where they’re trying to reduce stress but are actually achieving the opposite?

Camilla: Yeah — it can be stressful trying to reduce stress, right? Stress on top of stress. That’s why I try not to restrict too much with clients, because restriction creates another kind of pressure. Instead it’s about leaning into what makes you feel good. The good dopamine piece — a lot of us are deficient, chasing dopamine through alcohol, food, scrolling. Whereas there are so many positive dopamine sources: being in nature, walking, exercising, good chocolate, a hug. For a lot of high performers, wellbeing can become overwhelming — another thing on the to-do list. What I call health paralysis. You don’t actually know what to do because there are so many options and it becomes its own stressor. So simplify. Foundational. What does your day look like? Where have we got room to sprinkle something small? Let’s reduce the mental load of wellbeing.

Kelly: Love that. So in line with what you said — what might a stress-supportive day look like for someone who’s already really busy? Just sprinkling in some things?

Camilla: Finding ten minutes first thing to connect with yourself and your breath. Even if you’ve got small kids — wake up ten minutes earlier, or tag-team it with your partner. Just checking in: how am I feeling? What do I need today? Before you rush into the day. Then a cold shower — 250% increase in dopamine, your resilience levels go up, you feel like you can do anything. If you’re going to have coffee, take that time to slow down — don’t be rushing as you drink it. Give yourself more time in general so you’re not constantly under the pump. Look at your micro stress doses — the MSDs. The big things in life, the macro stressors, we don’t have much control over. But the micro ones? Your alarm tone. Mine is birds. Not a jarring alarm that sends your body immediately into fight or flight as soon as you wake up. Getting somewhere ten minutes early rather than rushing. Leaving space between meetings so your brain can settle. And then a nighttime ritual — reading a book for ten minutes. Six minutes of fiction reading has been shown to reduce stress by 68%. Not a self-help book necessarily — just something that takes you into another world. Moving your body every day — 30 minutes of walking counteracts the sitting. Some fresh air and vitamin D. Five minutes outside. Be a plant. Simple things that we can actually do.

Kelly: That’s so good. And I think it’s deceptively simple but so powerful when it’s done consistently. So in line with everything you’ve said — just in case someone listening is thinking that’s still a lot — what would be the one thing? Tomorrow. Just try this one thing. What would it be?

Camilla: Just find five to ten minutes to meditate. Or just five minutes to start your day breathing in peace. Insight Timer has loads of free meditations. I love Chelsea Possenger — she’s got great ones with affirmations and positive energy. Just carve out five to ten minutes for yourself to connect in with yourself. That’s it. That’s the one.

Kelly: Beautiful. I love it. So a little invitation for everyone listening — try that out this week. And Camilla and I would both love to hear how you go — link both our handles in the show notes. And how can people find you?

Camilla: Yeah — my book is Biohack Me, available on Amazon, Booktopia, in bookshops and airports. I host retreats — I’ve got one in Bali coming up — and I do one-on-one coaching and keynote speaking. A lot of my content on the sleep C-suite, the stress C-suite, and how to actually apply this. And I’m always on Instagram sharing what I do and what I’m working on. So yeah — find me there.

Kelly: Excellent. We’ll put all the links in the show notes. Thank you so much, Camilla. As always, it was so great to speak to you.

Camilla: Pleasure. I love this conversation. I think we could go on for hours — maybe a part two later in the year.

Kelly: Definitely a part two. If people listening have specific things they’d love us to talk about, let us know. We’ll schedule another one. Thank you. Bye.

Camilla: Thank you, bye.